The Archive of Stanley Messenger A double act Sharing the stage with Palden Jenkins at the 1998 Glastonbury Symposium

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STANLEY

What we bring to bear upon [the crop circles’ evolution] is pushing the process forward, and opening up entirely new possibilities, not only in what occurs in the fields as crop circles; because more and more I’ve come to feel that when we look at crop circles, and have crop circle conferences, we’re simply standing on the edge of a much vaster paranormal era, in which all kinds of other things are also happening, of which crop circles is only one example. And this seems to me to be the direction in which we need now to go. And it’s made me think, more and more and more, about what paranormal events are doing to our whole experience of the world in which we’re living, and I feel more and more that separating out these phenomena as particular things upon which we concentrate our attention, with a kind of "Wow", you know, "what’s happening? It’s here, these things, these beings, these events", as Karen said just now. And I was very pleased when Karen said that. These are not objects, they are events. Last year, Palden prepared our minds for this in a very strong way by pointing out that when you’re looking at a crop circle, you’re looking at nothing at all. You’re simply looking at the corn. The corn is there, it’s in a different form, a kind of an event of almost earthquake shattering force has simply moved the corn about. But there’s nothing else there but corn. And when the form forms there, and you see it for the first time in the early morning, and you go round a corner and there it is, and it kicks you in the solar plexus with the force of a horse, right there, and you almost fall over- I’ve fallen over once or twice, simply at the sight of the thing – and then you get up, and you pull yourself together. And you just look, and there’s the corn waving around just as it was before, with this incredible shape in it.

So what we’re looking at is a very strong reaction – from one point of view – in the world of nature, to something going on inside us, which is developing a kind of expectancy about the nature of our experience on the planet; developing this tremendous expectancy, and there, in front of our eyes is a direct response to that.

You see, we’ve been brought up, for the last century and a half, in a situation in which we are told, based on the philosophy of the notorious Emmanuel Kant, that the world is out there, and nothing we can do can actually enter into that. It’s a complete, what he called "ding an sich", a thing in itself, to which we have no access whatever. We have our subjective life going on beside it, and there it is, and sits there like birds in the wilderness, minding it’s own business, and we have nothing to do with it. Now, this picture, this paradigm, which led to materialism, led to the idea of a world in which we are more or less spectators rather than participants, this built up the whole of our materialistic science. And that materialistic science gradually turned over, not into science, which is a path of development of knowledge, but into a belief system – a scientism. That was the word that Palden told me three or four years ago, and I’ve used it ever since. Scientism is not science, it’s a religion. It’s a religion just like the other religions, it’s a belief system upon which we put weight. We imagine that it exists apart from our own personal knowledge and opinion, and that "They", some "They" out there, know things. Well, of course "They" don’t know anything. The only Human Being that can know anything is you. And that applies to every single one of us. The knowing process goes on in me and in you, not in some huge sort of museum of knowledge which exists apart from that. That’s a construct that we put there. And that is what has been blocking us in our development, for about a hundred and fifty years.

Now, it’s all changed - it’s all changing.

My old mentor, Rudolf Steiner, whom I never met in life, referred to the fact that, just about now, in this last two years before the actual changeover of the millennium, the whole of Mankind, whether conscious or not, would go through an inner change, which he described as Crossing The Threshold. Now that expression, crossing the threshold, has always been applied to the ancient mysteries. It was a rite of initiation that people went through, and it was very hard work and it sometimes was fatal, and you got through it at the peril of your survival, your sanity and your life. But some people managed to go across into a state where they were never the same again, and when their whole perception of their own reality and that of the world around them was totally transformed. Now, this work has been done. It’s been done, if you like, for us, although the "us" that it’s been done for was also there, we were there doing it, and now here we are. It’s no accident who is actually here in these paranormal observing events. All of you, all of us, are here because we have prepared to be at the forefront of the observing of these events. We’ve been preparing it for centuries. And here we are, reaping the results of this process.

And so this crossing of the threshold of the whole of Mankind at the end of the century, or end of the millennium, end of the 26,920 years. That process of threshold crossing is the fulfilment, you might almost say the reward, of very hard work we’ve all done in the past. And here we are now reaping that benefit. And stuck with an extraordinary task, namely taking hold of the whole paradigm that’s been taught us over the last century and a half, taking it, parcelling it up, gathering it together into a strength of consciousness, and shoving it forward into a future which is going to be utterly and entirely different from the one we’ve been in up to now.

Crop circles are simply one manifestation of that kind of inner plus outer change, which could not have taken place, unless big changes were also taking place in the outer. Okay Palden...

PALDEN

Hello everyone. It is interesting that we require a material phenomenon, an event – out there - in order to catalyse an awakening inside ourselves. Because we as Humans do have the capacity of consciousness inherent in us. And that particular moment which hits each and every one of us in life, when we become aware, we perhaps feel for the first time (but it’s not really the first time), we become aware that there is much more than we previously understood. And that there is a journey that we’re starting, and that there is another reality which is far larger than ourselves. That particular point isn’t directly related to any predictable experience, actually. For each and every one of us, that point of consciousness which literally actually comes – that point of apocalypse, if you look on apocalypse as truly meaning revelation, the revealing of things as they are – that kind of apocalypse comes to each and every one of us in tremendously unique ways, and often the actual micro-experience, which really just tips the balance, one day, for each of us, can be very very little.

For example, I’m having an argument at the moment on the internet with a chap called Drunvalo Melchizedek. And he’s been talking recently about disasters, and what’s gonna happen in coming times. And I was obliged to point out to him that we’re so well protected, we’re so well defended in our psychology, we modern people, that basically we’ve got a lot of things explained, and a lot of things taped. And if any of those things happen, well, that’s another one of those. So we can have disasters and civil wars, you know. The world has been on fire during the last year, for example. Significant chunks of our world have been just going up in flames. And yes, this is a shock. But in another way, on top of all the other shocks that keep on happening – and they come on the news and everything – it’s just another one. And it doesn’t change our consciousness, those kinds of things. If you look at the history of the 20th Century, I mean look at the disasters we have created. Do you remember the war to end all wars, for example? I mean, many of us won’t remember it, I don’t remember it. But we’ve had a war to end all wars. That was 70 years ago! And we’ve been through so much experience, not only of a paranormal nature, but normal experience is quite tremendous too. I mean, how long would it have taken each of you to get here by horse? Up to a hundred and fifty years ago, that was reality. And there’s this tremendous convocation of people who are able to come together for one weekend, do all this stuff, "drrrrrrrr", if you visualise all people’s thoughts and experiences and things going on at the moment, this is really busy. And I can tell you, the Angel of Glastonbury’s watching this and thinking "Oh, yea, there they are again, at it again. Good, yes, very good".

So this turn of consciousness that I’m talking about, we had a very interesting experience last year. There are nearly six billion people on this planet, but when one of those people died, last September, just one, it turned the consciousness of millions and millions of people across the world, for absolutely no logical reason at all. Old Princess Di. Now this was really a small event. It was a very small event. However, the issue here was the significance of the symbolism, and particularly the unexpectedness of it. For example, if Diana had been assassinated, that would come in the realm of the expected. Everyone would go "Oh yeah, well, poor woman, she got assassinated". That wouldn’t stir people up. What happened to stir people up was something which is just not supposed to happen for people like that, and it wasn’t expected in any way. It threw everyone into an altered state for a week. And in a country like Britain, and also countries like Japan were strongly affected, this is dynamite stuff. Because we Brits are really well defended. You know, our egos are really well built through centuries of building it up and taping the holes. And in the last fifty years or so, we’ve got particularly sophisticated at taping all these holes.

And so, looks at it from a God’s eye viewpoint. You know, there you are, watching Humanity destroying itself, and you’re thinking to yourself "How on Earth can I get through to these people without breaking their own free will? How can I get through to them? I’ve got to somehow – because you know, give them a volcano, give them an economic crisis, give them a full scale war, and they just carry on. Give them cancer, give them PCB’s, give them their 17 year old kids telling them to F-off, give them all these things, and they still carry on. So, give ‘em UFOs". And what happens? Down come the brothers in the UFOs, and they’re trying to signal to us, right? And what happens? These bloody people, they just get frozen, they just go Ga-ga, or they run inside for the camera and stand behind this... thing. Or they run inside, and then within 24 hours they’re saying it didn’t happen.

And they send down Jesus, for example, and look what happened with him. The mission, in my own judgement anyway, I don’t think the mission was entirely successful. And so it’s a great problem, you know, from a God’s eye viewpoint, it’s a great problem getting through to these Humans, who in one sense are totally awake and evolved beings within, but in another sense are completely shrouded and caught in this cup, or jar, believing that we are separate individuals, believing that we are really someone in our little jar, and looking out through the glass into the world, out there. And so there’s this need to set tricks which will really catch consciousness, and turn us in a way which will wake us up in some way. But also the problem, you see, is that we are free will beings, and our free will cannot be overcome.

And I’m gonna leave it at that, and see where Stanley can take it from there ...

STANLEY

This is murder, isn’t it? I don’t know how we took this on!

Really, I suppose what I really want to say is that, I think the nursery class in crop circle observation really is now over. I think we’ve come to a point now where we’ve got some work to do in quite a different way. Now I said this last year. And I was being talked to by somebody that Karen mentioned, namely Thoth. Thoth, the Hermes Trismegistus, Enoch figure that comes into Human life every now and again and finds a way of communicating. And quite apart from us and our work, at some point either last year or the year before, Thoth – through his agent on the planet, who lives in Colorado – said something about crop circles. And it was very interesting. I tried to describe a bit of it last year. Having made this description, which was very interesting, I’ll try and give you a little bit of a picture of it. He said "If you can gather together even a dozen people who are prepared to really explore their own consciousnesses, and change them to a point where they can really communicate, I can give you help over something very very specific and important connected with crop circles. And I’ll tell you what it is". First of all, he said what it was. Namely, "the forms that you’re seeing on the fields, and which have absolutely blown your minds for seven years, these forms are impeccable. And nothing needs to be done to change them in any way, or even to interpret them in any way, on that level, just let them have their effect directly. But the pathway by which they reach you is a very different matter. Because that pathway is speaking to your organisms on a level for which those organisms are not yet ready". Now why should this happen? Why should the Gods let this happen, as it were?

And the answer is that "it isn’t in a simple direct way the Gods at all who are doing this - it’s you". Well, what do you mean, that they are hoaxes after all? That Human Beings are producing them, and they’re just a sort of trick? And he said "No, they’re not a trick, although they are a bit of a joke". But it’s a joke with a point to it. And in a sense you see, the people that promote the hoax thing, or the explanation that they’re hoaxes, are correct in one way, and completely up the wall in the other. Because the Human Beings who are producing these things are not yet here. So, what do you mean? "What I mean is that, although you are producing these things, you’re not producing them form your present consciousness, you’re producing them from your future consciousness. Which is why in a certain way you fully understand them and are mind-blown my them, and see them as the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. They are absolutely beautiful and effective, and yet they’re getting to you by a path which you’re beginning to see can be quite injurious". And in some circumstances, says Thoth, it could actually be fatal. So don’t stay too long in them. Most people, when they go into a crop circle and find that it has a curious effect on their physiology - they fall over, their muscles get weak, they feel sick, or they have very bad headaches or whatever goes on – those people get out quick enough. Not everybody has those reactions, and some people don’t have them because they’re in in a way somewhat impenetrable to the effects, others are actually able to transform the energies in a way that they are really nourishing and healing, and they have ecstatic and beautiful experiences, which go way beyond the experience of the form itself.

Now what can we do about this? What can we do? I asked him specifically, Can you indicate to us a path by which we can start to transform this downloading of something form our own future into the fields in this way, to transform it in such a way that it’s not injurious. And he said "Yes, there are things that can be done, but in order to do them, you’re going to have to do a hell of a lot of work, in various different paths". He said something which surprised me because I didn’t know anything about it. He said "One of the chief clues to this has already been developed in other fields, and you call it radionics". A man called de la Warr developed this black box, years and years and years ago, it’s been used for all sorts of things, lots of people don’t believe in it, other people have developed it quite a long way. He said "if you can get somebody who’s a real expert in radionics, I can give indications on how to make a very simple radionic instrument which will download the energies in such a way that they are clearer, they’re not so poisonous, and moreover they’re boosted. The energies will be stronger, so that instead of just having the form, you’ll actually be able to perceive the realities through which they are being transmitted".

He said another thing about the forms themselves. He said  "These forms are coming from the highest level of which you can conceive, as far as form itself is concerned". This threw me back on to my old knowledge of Rudolf Steiner’s teaching, because he referred to spirits of form, in the second hierarchy of those beings whom Dionysius The Areopagite described as the nine hierarchies. The third one in the row, in the second hierarchy, called the Excusei. Now these beings are the same beings who are referred to in the Bible as the Elohim, and they are the spirits of form. They occupy places in the cosmos, our own Sun is a centre for the activities of the Elohim, and so on. We don’t need, at this moment, to go into all that. But these spirits of form, the highest concept that we can possibly have of form itself, of shape and dimension, these things are speaking directly into the crop circles, says Thoth.

So then comes the next question. What about the path by which they reach us. And he said "Well this is a very different matter, and this we have to work on". And then he started to talk about the relationship between what we call spaceships, or ETs, or whatever particular line on that that we have, and he said "These beings have devoted themselves to engaging from the cosmos in the path of conveying these forms down to you". And then started to say "And you won’t be able, really,  to make contact with them or to understand what’s going on, unless you start to study geometry". Well we all know that, from heaps of people who’ve been lecturing, who’s been saying that projective geometry is really the clue to understanding the forms on the ground. "Now that phenomenon", says Thoth, "goes even deeper into the reality of crop circles than you have yet realised. Because the nature of what you are calling spaceships is comprehensible to you, mainly through geometry. And you’ll have to do a lot of work on this".

For instance, anybody who has any capacity for three dimensional geometry, who is able to form inside their own consciousness, a visualisation process of particularly the platonic solids, the actual forms that are the basic planks, the nuts and bolts of geometry itself. Particularly, the tetrahedron. Take a tetrahedron, he said (well, he didn’t put it in those words, I put it in those words) - you know what a tetrahedron is, it’s four equilateral triangles, all meeting, which is the smallest number of plane surfaces that can enclose a space. So it’s very fundamental to understanding space to understand the nature of a tetrahedron. Practise inwardly, you can make it out of cardboard, out of four bits of cardboard, and stick them together, and form this little pyramid shape. And having done that, make a copy of that in plasticine. And then practise, on the table in front of you, pressing in the four corners of it. And you’ll find you’ve made four little triangles. Press those in further, make the triangles bigger and bigger, and you’ll find in the end that the original faces of it have completely disappeared and become points, and the triangles you’re creating by pressing the plasticine in those four dimensions, have become the triangles. And there you’ve got another tetrahedron, and it’s upside down. So one tetrahedron has transformed itself into another, in space. And that’s a kind of movement which you can visualise internally, and finally you can get these two tetrahedra to breathe in and out of each other almost infinitely. In fact it is infinite. All these four directions of space come in, and they pass through, and they form tetrahedron after tetrahedron in different sizes. They get bigger and bigger as you go on moving the planes. And now you’ve got two tetrahedrons, in breathing movement inside one another.

And now you understand what a merkabah is. If you’ve heard of a merkabah and haven’t known what the hell it was, that it what it is. It’s the first fundamental geometrical solid which can be an image for the minimum requirement in plane surfaces, to enclose a space, and it’s that, in movement, as an event. A merkabah is not a thing, it’s an event. It’s a process of the creating of space, which will contain objects. And many occultists writing books these days are talking about the fact that every single thing that you can identify as an object has a merkabah around it. Including you, and including an electron, and everything. Now, it’s extremely important to practise this, because if you practise that and really begin to grasp that that’s the nature of three dimensional space, then you can begin to understand what a spaceship is. Because a spaceship is a place where merkabahs can come together on a common capstone. You know what a capstone is from the great pyramid in Egypt, it was the missing bit at the top. And it’s the crucial part, it’s the reference point for any pyramidal form. Now he says that there exists a capstone which exists in all dimensions, and it can provide a venue where any number of merkabahs from different dimensions of reality can meet in one place. And that’s why a spaceship can move from one dimension to another. And we know from many descriptions, UFOs are not physical all the time. They can come into the physical dimension, and then they can go out of it again, beyond the next dimension, into at least four, perhaps even five dimensions of movement. And because they can come from there, they’re coming from a realm where time is different, into a realm where time is as we know it to be, a linear thing. Which is gradually diminishing, I know that time is coming together, it’s condensing, we’re reaching a point where we’ve almost within an ace of being able to visualise what the eternal present is, the past and the future are beginning to condense on us – which is why we’re having all these paranormal experiences – and we can now look through and see that there are certain beings who are multidimensional, who can move from one dimension to another, and it is they who are helping to download from our own future these forms which can enter our consciousness now in our present DNA. And by the healing processes that Thoth is suggesting - and I’ve only started on it, because I’ve only told you about the geometrical one, but there are many others – if we can do that, then we can begin to communicate directly with our own future, and moreover, our own future can start to communicate with us.

And why are they doing it? They’re doing it because we’re so sick. And our future is them, and we are their past, and they’re getting extremely scared about what’s happening in the past, which is their own past, because we may muck up the situation here in such a way that they themselves are also threatened.

Palden...

PALDEN

In 1987 there were five billion incarnate Humanoids on planet Earth. In the end of 1998, there are six billion. Right, so since the Harmonic Convergence, we’ve grown by a billion people. And the problem here is – this is part of this argument I was having with Drunvalo actually – the problem with this is that if we should all, or if most of us should kick it at roughly the same time, drop our clogs for whatever reason, the problem with that would be that the universe would be confronted with billions of damaged, possibly angry, rather lost, incomplete souls to deal with.

And it would be like, for example, in Glastonbury here. One of the problems we get in Glastonbury is that we receive some of the Human fallout from inner cities, and some very very difficult Human social situations. And they roll along to Glastonbury, which used to be a country town when I first came here, and we encounter difficulties which people in this area can’t actually comprehend. For example, when the first rock festival happened here in the early 70s, what happened was that lots of hippies started stealing people’s milk from their front door step. And people in Glastonbury could not understand this. Or there was another time, it was 1986, when suddenly everyone in the town realised we had to start locking the doors of our cars. It was simultaneous in the whole town. It just suddenly clicked, we had to start locking the doors of our cars. And that was quite a shock.

Now think about this in universal terms. Here are we Humans. We’ve really been though hell. Of our own creation. By our own choice. And we’re incomplete on this process at this particular point in time. There is obviously a meaning to all this, and in the fullness of time, whatever time really is, the meaning of what we have been through will be completed, it will be fulfilled. And we will all be glad we went through this shit. We’ll all be very very glad. And we’ll be up there, on planet Xenon, saying "D’you remember tomato ketchup? D’you remember Hollywood movies? Tamla Motown? Easter eggs? Toilet paper?!" McDonalds is unique to planet Earth.
Now the thing here is that if we all created a catastrophe is our world, and a large proportion of us suddenly kicked it, then it would create this export of souls who -from the viewpoint of the rest of the universe – could be very pollutant. Particularly because there would be a lot of frustration. There’d be English football yobbos. There would be young Bosnians who’d seen their parents getting killed in front of them. There would be people who have had such severe chemical poisoning in their bodies that it’s just completely affected their experience and what they can draw from that. There are people who’ve been fed ideas, of all sorts of different descriptions, which have severely skewed their consciousness. I’m a good example, for example. And there are people who have also have lived what in our current society we might regard as a desirable life, they’ve been wealthy and fortunate, and in good conditions. And yet, even people like this will have experienced this on some level of their being as a form of suffering. And so, if billions of souls get exported into the universe very very quickly,  there’s a lot of problem going on because the people out there haven’t been through this, and they don’t know how to deal with it. It’s like having a bunch of New Yorkers moving into your town, you know. You don’t know how to handle it and they’re coming on strong. And so the issue here is that it’s actually quite important that planet Earth doesn’t blow it, and that it does pull off the big one.

I mean, think about this. Some of the greatest souls, some of the most impressive people that I’ve met have been druggies, alkies, criminals, and killers, actually. They are people who have been through something, and they’ve realised and become something as a result of that. And after that they’ve become thoroughly committed, dynamic, very clear people with their priorities really really clear. And quite fearless, quite fearless. People who’ve been into the pit, people who’ve suffered depression, or any kind of different major Human ailment, and have in some way come out the other side, are very much the richer for it. This is our gift. We’re not just screwed up Humanoids. In fact this habit we have of thinking of ourselves as low-down, mud bespattered Humans, who are just stuck on this planet on the bloody edge of the universe where no one ever comes, and it doesn’t really matter ... you know that one?  That feeling of being abandoned, down here in this hole. We have a very fundamental habit of thinking of ourselves in this way, and of being un-Godlike. For example, we think that we’re here to learn. That’s a fundamental idea that we live by. We think that we’re here to learn. And this is indeed true in one way of looking at things, but the truth is we already know.

I’ll give you a good example. It’s some things, I don’t know if you’ve heard of them, they’re things called crop formations. And the remarkable thing with crop formations is, with very few exceptions, these designs have never been seen before. There are no cultural forms that we have had, throughout the whole history of humanity, which exactly resemble the crop formations, except for a very few exceptions such as the Mandelbrot Set, or the Tree of Life. And yet, the rub is, that when people see their first crop formation in a picture, or live, they recognise it. There is a deep experience of recognition, or perhaps of remembering, which just goes "Boiiing!". It just hits you. D’you remember that one? When it hit you, when you first saw that picture and you thought "God almighty!" You know, there’s this feeling of "I know that. There’s something slightly familiar about that. And ... what is it?!" You know that? Now this is amazing stuff.

Well think about this. These things are a hoax, actually. You know, all this arguing is really fruitless, ‘cos they are a hoax. You don’t believe me do you? You see, the issue is: it’s like a footprint in the snow. The footprint isn’t the being that made it. The footprint is just the bit that got left behind. And also, you see we have all these neat crop formations, the placing of them is remarkable, the lay of the corn, the design of the circle, all of the unique features are just amazing. But it’s trickery. Out and out trickery. It is! And what for?

It’s about this impermeability I was talking about a couple of chapters ago. You see, the problem is that we’re so well defended, that we’ve got to be tricked. And also, crop formations are a rather male preoccupation. Men get terribly excited about these things, although it’s lovely to see – I think – a larger proportion of women in the crowd than we use to have, but I’m not sure about that. Anyway, it’s tricking these sophisticated, educated minds, these high IQs, these trained intellects, these engineers, mathematicians, rationalists, and the rest of us. It’s tricking us to walk into an empty space. And the thing – the real thing that is there – what we’re seeing when we see a crop formation is a pure manifestation of nothing. It’s very, very precise manifestation of nothing. It’s the merkabah. Because the corn is just the framework of it, it’s the footprint, but what’s inside? And also, when you walk in there, and we’re tramping in, and it’s the mud and it’s the tramline, and it’s the buzzing brain, and "What is it that causes these things? " and "Who is it that’s made this one?" and "Is this one real", and "brbrbrbrbrbr", and it goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, like this.

And while this is going on, and while we’re telling ourselves that is the reality of our situation, actually, something else is going on. And that is that we are walking unwittingly into a kind of a – for want of a better term – temple space. We’re walking into an energy field, we’re walking into a kind of a formless microwave oven. We’re walking into a psychic field, which actually doesn’t obey the same laws of time and space as our normal visual sense, our normal geographical sense would have. We’re walking into a consciousness field where you might tell your self you’re on planet Earth. However, the root of your being will know there’s something else. For example, I think one of the most valuable practises one can get into in a crop formation is to close your eyes. Sit down,  make yourself comfortable, and let yourself float off. And what I’ve found – and I’ve heard some other people say this – what I’ve found is that when I do that, when I really let myself go, and I find that easier in a crop formation than in many other places, when I really let myself go, If I just kind of feel through the top of my head, you know how how can feel, a kind of "jzjzjzjzjzz" comes up and you can feel ... have you ever had that one where the top of your head opens out like that, and it’s sort of like you’ve got a bowl in your head and you’re a receiving instrument...

[tape cuts out ...]

... you’ll be able to feel to the other end of the universe, and further – easily. There’s another one as well, which when I first experienced it, it was quite a shock. That was, although it was obvious that I was standing on solid ground, on planet Earth, solid ground, when I closed my eyes and let go, there was nothing underneath. I recommend you give something like that a try. You might have different kinds of experiences. But the thing is that this is an altered reality that we’ve stepped into. And the geometry, and the material precision of these things is indeed significant, however it’s a trick. It’s an utter hoax of the highest order. It is intended, I would suggest, to trick us to walk into ourselves. To walk into a mode of reality, a kind of consciousness, a certain timelessness, spacelessness, which we know full well. We have complete memory of it. It is in our DNA, and other places too. It’s inherent to us. It is us as universal beings. It is us with a memory which goes back to – if there was such a thing - the very beginning of the universe. And it is us which is also calling from the future.

STANLEY

So remind yourselves of it, by doing these inner actions, which will strengthen precisely what Palden is saying. One of them, I’ve already suggested, is really making yourself familiar in your inner space, in the early hours of the morning, or while you’re doing the washing up, or whatever, with the movement that can happen in your experience of three dimensional spaces – which are both inside and outside. You’ll find for instance, that if you’ve worked on those clay figures that I’ve suggested, and it applies to anybody who works with clay – anybody who has ever done any clay modelling or sculpting know this – that if you really persist with clay modelling, of any sort, your thinking starts to change. It becomes more plastic. Your actual thoughts get solid, they have a stickiness to them like the clay. And you begin to be able to feel that this is not just abstract thinking, these are concrete things going on, first in my head, and then in the place where my head is being supplied from, which is here [the heart]. You begin to experience this. Now that’s one of the things. These are not just exercises, you see, they’re really strengthenings of your own being, to directly experience reality. You’re not separating yourself off and going into some kind of mystical state, you’re actually engaging yourself with the nuts and bolts of the way in which consciousness works in you. And that’s one aspect of it, the geometrical one. But there are others.

Another, for instance, is to translate your sense perception of the forms of a crop circle, whatever those are, and all these things, strengthen these things by drawing them on paper. Or on huge sheets of paper, or out in the garden on the lawn, putting little bits of stones and sticks and things, and make yourselves crop circles, as accurately as you can. They don’t need to be the last one you saw, they can be any one that had a sort of effect on you. Make them in the garden, on the village hall with string, and raffia, and flowers, and anything else you like, but make them accurate with the angles right. And then the group of you that’s done it, go and sit on the corners, the different ones, the ones you feel happy with. The ones you feel at home with, the places which mean something to you in the form. We did that, there’s a gentleman sitting at the back, in the back row, who took part in this with me, five or six years ago now, up in the Midlands. And we did it on the floor of a hall, and we sat down on the corner, and I thought we’d sat there for about ten minutes, and an hour and a half later, we came to our selves. It really does alter time when you do this. It’s a way of familiarising yourself with the actual form which you’ve seen, and deepening your actual seeing by putting it into your will.

Children in Steiner schools, for instance, who are taught their tables, are not taught by sitting at their desks. I think this has probably gone into education generally by now. The children are got up and they stamp round the room saying "three ones are three, three twos are six" or whatever, until their actual limbs have contained their tables. And they retain their table far more by doing that than they do by sitting at a desk. It’s getting the will into the perception, that’s what I’m saying isn’t it?

So there’s that , that you can do. You can do thing with your body, but there it gets into the realm of trickery. And Thoth told me that, for instance, if you’re going to make essences out of the corn that you’ve got out of a crop circles, I’d better give you some sort of hints as to how you can downgrade the energies – it’s like downloading from a computer – so that the homeopathic process of transformation is actually working from the future and not from now. Otherwise you’ll get into trouble, you may actually do physical damage. But these things can be taught. See, we’re not being hamstrung by these channelled informations, we’re being given hints, but it’s us that has to do the work. We have to do it, it’s just that there are certain indications. Like has happened in the past century through the different spiritual movements, theosophy, anthroposophy, subud, all these different things, sufism. These have all taught people methods, but the methods must be translated into your own personal will for the transformation to have any meaning. The same applies to what I hinted about the radionics, which I know nothing whatever about, but I’m able to get the hints from that direction. What I’m looking for, and I think we’ll all be looking for this more and more, is a sort of nest of people who are prepared to really work hard, and to take these suggesting dead seriously, because I think we’re going to need them in the next five or six years of crop circle experience. because if we don’t, I think we will be pushed back into more and more abstract relationships to them. I fear that. There’s always a tendency when something doesn’t engage the will, that it becomes an abstraction, we start to increase the amount of theorisation we are doing in connection with it.

PALDEN

This business of us calling ourselves from the future. I mean, you see the problem we have here is that we believe that we exist. We believe that I, and us, are actual real entities, and we believe that the present and the past and the future are separate issues. And we believe that we are different from people in Pakistan and Uruguay. And we believe that we are fundamentally different from beings in other dimensions, and on other worlds. And yet this is a construct. This has been pointed out for a good 2,500 years. It’s a construct, the belief that I myself exist. From a more enduring viewpoint, the issue here is that we are indeed all kind of coagulations of energy which kind of get locked into form for a while. But even then, the locked forms themselves are like rivers which are perpetually changing. And so when we’re talking about "The Circlemakers", for example and if we should visualise them - and very few people seem to talk about this really – but if we should visualise them as intelligences of a very profound order, that don’t seem to be of an Earthly nature, they don’t seem to be conditioned by Earth experience in the way that we are. If we assume this to be so, then we tend to believe these intelligences to be remote. You know, there we are, we sit outside in a cornfield and we say "I wish I could just see a UFO once in my life".

STANLEY: Palden, am I a hoax? Are you a hoax?

PALDEN: In a manner of speaking, yes.

STANLEY: Do I stop being a hoax when I do something? I have a feeling I am what I do, not what I appear to be.

PALDEN: This is indeed true, yes. By their fruits shall you know them.

STANLEY: And I don’t exist until I do something.

PALDEN: Well, yes, except that you see here also, if we’re talking about energy in a larger form, which combines and recombines in all sorts of kind of cellular and flow forms, right, if we’re talking about that, and if we’re talking therefore about ourselves as nodules within this enormous interaction that is going on, then in that sense, the belief that I exist, that these Assembly Rooms exist, that a crop circle exists, that the past or the future exists, is actually only a relative construct within that enormous flow and that enormous interaction. It’s in that sense that I am kind of meaning that I or we are a hoax. And you see, if I do something, it’s actually the Doing which is doing through me. It’s not necessarily me that’s doing something. And therefore the doing itself doesn’t even necessarily validate that I exist! So think I’d better go home and have a cup of tea!

STANLEY: Isn’t it possible though, to change the Doing, so that it comes from a greater depth, so that I become identified fully with something more active – in lets say a spiritual sense – and therefore bring myself into existence. I agree that a deed which is simply a reflection from something that is stimulated from outside is not a true deed at at. That’s true, that’s simply a reaction. But I think it’s possible to raise consciousness to a level in which the deed becomes something which is going on both inside and outside. And I think one has to develop each of these points in ourselves, and co-ordinate them in order to do something. Which is a temple deed, then.

PALDEN: Yes, yes. There’s something also I think rather interesting about the altered reality within a crop formation. I think it’s really important to kind of monitor ourselves when we’re in crop formations, and then when we go out of them and we go to our car, and we go for our cream tea in the Stones Restaurant and all that, then we need to check back and keep monitoring our altered states. Because when you’re in a crop formation ,or at least when I’m in a crop formation, when I’ve done my examinations and things, I kind of tend to float off. Now the act of floating off, even though physically I’m not doing anything, is a deed in a different dimension. It’s a deed on a different level. Whereas when I’m having my cream tea in the Stones Restaurant, that’s a deed on another level – it’s on the cream tea dimension basically, isn’t it? So, yes, I agree. And thinking is a deed as well, and existence is a deed. But the interesting thing is, I think that there’s a kind of an interesting trick that goes on in the crop formations as well. Because, for example, we believe that we’re going into a finite space, and we say It’s 212 feet across, and it’s got this shape, and we draw it and we photograph it. But actually, when you’re in a crop formation, you’re not in 212 feet of space. you’re in an enormous space. And from the public’s viewpoint, if they accept the existence of crop formations at all, they’ll think "Oh well that’s a little thing in the middle of a field in Wiltshire". However, when you’re in one of these crop formations, it is a major kind of universal portal, which is vast, in some way. There’s a gentleman nodding over there, yes there’s some banging over there as well! So it’s fascinating, isn’t it? Isn’t it fascinating? What can we do with this?

I must tell you, actually. I work as an Editor, and once upon a time I had to edit Stanley. And one of the things he said in one of his articles, he made the point, talking about homeopathy, that when the harvest happens, it all goes up into the combine harvester, and then it all goes into the big dryers and blowers and storers, and then it all gets mixed into millions and millions of tons of wheat, and eventually it gets to the McVities biscuit factory, and it gets munched around into all sorts of stuff, packaged, and sent to South Africa, Singapore, North America, and Hemel Hempstead. And we eat it. We eat homeopathically potentised crop circles. And that was this guy’s idea, quite a few years ago, and I don’t think many people got that one! but it’s really really important.

STANLEY: I don’t even remember saying it! how extraordinary...

It would be a very intensive exercise to do what I’ve suggested we do about crop circles. But it won’t get the mortgage paid, or the washing up done. I mean, it won’t actually take our ordinary lives, apparently, very much further. So what are we doing? What are we doing here? Why are we so interested? And it brings me back to the main point I think I’ve been trying to make. That our dealing with crop circles is actually a gesture towards our own future, and I think that is very concrete. That we’re being given a window - a far more effective window than a shot of LSD – to see the potentialities of becoming, in ourselves. And here we need more clarity, and there’s a great deal that we could all be learning from some of the stuff that’s come through in the last century and a half from the spiritual movements. Which you can sum up by saying that we are threefold beings. As far as our actual substance is concerned, which Palden says doesn’t exist at all, the reason it doesn’t exist at all is that it’s God. I mean, here we are, just embodiments of the divine, in that sense. We’re holograms, or fragments of the divine. But there’s another level in us which is becoming something. And that becoming process is what we’re becoming aware of when we begin to think that our own future is standing there calling us, pulling on our solar plexuses, to actually get weaving in our dealing with these paranormal events that are flooding in upon us, and which we have been responsible for producing, in the long term. But there’s a third element, which in Christianity is always referred to as the Holy Spirit. I’ve talked about the Father, and now I’ve talked about the becoming thing, which is what Christians call Christ, which is a process of becoming, but there’s a third element that most people leave out of the account because they don’t know the difference between soul and spirit. And this third element is when we ourselves actually take on our own responsibility, and become active agents of the divine, in a conscious way. And that’s not just becoming, it’s an entirely separate thing. It’s a deed which comes absolutely from our guts and core, in which the whole of creation is active. We ourselves are not then separate personalities, we’re actually active holograms of the creative process of the universe, that’s what the spirit is. So you have Father, Son, Spirit. And the spirit is Mother, that’s Mother Earth. That’s the response of the created element to its original creation, and to the becoming element in its middle. You can’t really think in twos anymore in all this stuff. You’ve got to go over into a threefold picture. We’re so conditioned to thinking of a dualistic universe; either/or, good/evil, male/female, all this stuff, which is obsolete. We have to get up on our own feet and realise that there is a middle path we can follow between the past and the future, in which we are fully responsible.

The double act is sort of coming to an end, isn’t it? I’m not quite sure...

PALDEN: Well, this business about our future selves calling to us. This fascinates me, because we tend to think that in the future, we will somehow be more evolved than we are in the present. Somehow, life will be better, and we’ll be more awake, and this kind of thing. And this might or might not be so. But there’s something rather interesting about the present moment. Again, we tend to think that here we are in a pile of shit, and therefore there’s nothing really to boast about, to write to God about, about our time. You know, it’s all a mess, and we’d better change it. There’s something actually that’s very special about the present moment, and this can also be, therefore, to do with us now communicating back to the future, if you can get that. Because you see, have you ever sat in bed, and you’ve been ill, and after you finally get to accept it, and you really yield to the illness, you realise "This is doing me a world of good". Or you have some other misfortune, and you really realise "This is the stuff. This is the business of life", you know. You might have fought against it, for years and years beforehand, until you finally got blatted and down on your knees. But when you finally yield to these things, you realise "This is the stuff". Now, here we are, in a stage of history at the moment, where we’re on the edge of potentially destroying ourselves, as a planetary race. And the rub here is also that we know that we’re doing it, and we know we needn’t do it, and we know we can choose not to do it, yet we still do it. Which is an amazing formula, when you think, about it! Now, it takes a hell of a lot of work to get into a situation like this. It’s taken us thousands of years of really hard work. We’ve had to kill each other, rip each other off, create all sorts of devastation around here, in order to get to the point where we are. There’s also a lot of creativity and wonder as well,  but you know. Creating the situation where we are at the moment has been a really difficult thing. And the only thing that’s missing is that realisation, like I was talking about, about when you’re in bed ill and you realise "Golly, this is doing me a world of good, this hardship".

Now, there are a lot of people who for example want to get off planet Earth. And I’m sad for people like that, ‘cus they’re really gonna miss the party, actually, and they’re really missing it now. As I said, you can’t get McDonalds anywhere else in the universe! And so the thing here is that we’re also on an edge. We’re on an edge, we’re between a rock and a hard place, and there’s an acuteness of consciousness that comes out about that, and therefore this acuteness of consciousness is something that we can actually export to our future, and to our past, and anywhere else it can be needed.

STANLEY: I always get back in the end, don’t I, to the Prodigal Son? I think I quote the Prodigal Son every single year. I really believe in that story, you know. that it’s a far better path going down and eating husks than it is staying at home with Dad. A much better path. You got so far away that you get the perspective to see what it is you’re missing. and that’s the whole point of evil. It isn’t really very evil at all. What do you mean, Hitler wasn’t evil? Well, he was, wasn’t he? But he gets back too. The only difference is that it’s a longer way. It’s a very long way. And somehow going too far away from the straight road, from the road which we know we should be following, we need to do it in order to know that the way is different that we should be following. Do you know, I’m 82 now, but I actually remember what the Bishop said in my Confirmation when I was 16. It suddenly came back to me. It was a line out of a poem, and it said:

Held, we fall to rise
Are baffled to fight better
Sleep to wake

That’s why it happens. It’s why not being is the only way to achieve being. It’s the only way. The good boy who stays by Dad, and does what The Lord says, in an undeveloped, innocent way, actually doesn’t learn anything at all. And sooner or later, he has to follow the path of the prodigal This is the story of Parsifal and Gawain. Some of these old myths teach a tremendous amount about the secret of living, and the relationship of virtue to failure. We need to fail, we can’t get anywhere without failing, and we’re all in it together. And it’s wonderful, isn’t it?

PALDEN: I think one of the other interesting things here with the crop formations is that, it’s like the millennium bug, you know. No one knows, actually. I’ll repeat that. No one knows, actually. No one. There is not a single authority in this matter. There is no one who can give the answer. And there’s a wonderful thing about this as well, that that is, it’s probably true to say there isn’t one, especially in the way that we usually ask questions. It’s a fascinating thing, and it’s just lovely. Half of the business is looking at the Humans involved with all this, and what we get up to. Because we put ourselves through all these battles about crop formations. The hours I’ve spent arguing with Americans in the last year about hoaxes, ‘cus there’s lots of people over there who believe that it’s all a hoax. (Why are we talking about hoaxing all the time?). And this is all stuff of the mind! It’s got nothing to do with crop formations at all ,actually, or very little. It’s to do with ourselves, and to do with our dilemmas, and to do with the way that we try to perceive reality and the way we try to sort it out. And the way that, at the moment, we’re actually failing to do so. Failure is a good thing. We’re actually failing to really understand our reality. This is not only in relation to crop formations, it’s in relation to the whole of life, really, when all is said and done. And there’s something rather interesting, because when you get educated, you know, education, it’s teaching us the belief that there are answers, and that you just have to go through a series of actions to get to that answer, and once you get to that answer, it is sorted. and there’s a certain kind of emotional insecurity connected with this, because if you don’t have it sorted, it’s not right. And anything could happen, and you don’t know what’s gonna happen next! And that’s precisely what we’re on about here. I mean the only way to really deal with this, as far as I understand it, in my experience, is to suspend my neurotic need to get the answer. That’s the only way I can go to sleep at night with questions like this. And therefore, it becomes a process. It becomes a process where you accept that there is no answer to this, that that is not necessarily a very productive way to go about life, and therefore you have to go on a process. And that process is about experiencing what you can experience at any moment, and doing the best you can with that.

STANLEY: One thing that’s struck me once or twice recently is, supposing we actually don’t do what we’re supposed to do about crop circles or UFOs. Supposing we just go to sleep over it, put our heads under the pillow and think "Oh my Gaud, I’ve got to get up on Monday morning anyway, let’s forget it!" What are they going to do? What are they going to do? and that ‘They’ is us. I’ve been expecting any minute that there would be a whole lot of new, entirely unprecedented paranormal things happening, in our ordinary surroundings, which are even more startling and mind-blowing than crop circles and UFOs. And I think that that would be both failure and a new wonder. They’re always prepared to provide new wonders, ‘they’ being us. We’re always prepared to go deeper into our own future in order to wake ourselves up in the present. But do we need to? Should we not actually pull ourselves together, and really find out now, what to do about downloading this information, this absolutely priceless information, and to with this information actually to change this limited DNA of ours. We know what it should be like, our future knows. That information is there, not in the forms, the forms are simply the advertisement, they’re the ad for the thing. The real thing is what’s going on in the process of downloading from our own future into our present moment. And it’s coming from a level of organism, of DNA if you like, from ourselves say 500 -1000 years in the future. If we can start to know what that is, we can develop the technology – we’re very good at that – we can begin to work on our own organism, to raise its level so that we can evolve at the rate we’re supposed to be evolving. Because you see, our evolution, this becoming process that I talked about as the middle way, that becoming process is no longer being handed out to us. That’s what crossing the threshold at the end of the millennium means. Our own evolution into a future biological form is in our own hands now. And it’s not going to happen unless we do it. And that’s why I was asking Palden whether he thought that we existed in the sense of our deeds. I m what I do, but I only am what I do if I do some pretty miraculous things from now on.

I’ve said all I want to say!

PALDEN: I mean, the fascinating thing is that we do exist, just in case you had any doubts. Because, we’re obliged to live with ourselves. We’re obliged to struggle through all this existence business, being that pile of patterns that we are. And one of the most agonising aspects of being a Human is when you find yourself returning to the same old pattern that you’ve been doing again and again. And you said you’d learned about it, and you said you were gonna stop, but you’re doing it again! And that’s one of the most remarkable things about being a Human really. In a sense, being stuck in ourselves, while it is also true that our self doesn’t exist. Eeugh! And this kind of intensity, this kind of magnification of experience, which kind of comes from this kind of concentration of consciousness which we are, that there’s kind of an interesting analogy in a crop formation, as one of these merkabahs, one of these energy fields. Because, it seems to me that the kind of energy space you can experience in a crop formation is, itself, like a kind of a magnifying lens. It does seem to accelerate things. I mean, I don’t know if you’re felt this, but when I come our of many formations, especially if I’ve been in a good state, a really open state, I can really feel I’ve been fried. I can really feel my cells have been jiggled, you know, as if I’ve been in a microwave a bit. I don’t know if you feel this kind of thing, but I’m sure it’s not utterly unique. And it’s as if there’s an energy field there which kind of quickens the growth pattern, whatever that is.

For example, some people get joy in crop formations, and some people get headaches. And for some people, their life changes in a dramatically enlightening way. And for other people, that’s when their life starts taking a turn for the worse, when they get involved in crop formations. And it’s as if we get faced with whatever is just there, just underneath the surface of our being. And I think it’s necessary to be quite realistic as well. A lot of people go charging into crop formations thinking "I’m going to see a crop formation, and I’ve got my camera and my measuring outfit!". But the thing is that you’re walking into an energy field, and that does involve things changing. It does involve taking risks with the unknown. No one actually knows what’s going to happen. And also, it’s not necessarily possible to judge in these kinds of situations whether, for example, a headache is necessarily a bad thing, or whether a spiritual experience is a good thing, in this kind of situation. Because what we’re talking about here, one of the things these things seem to challenge us to do is to really get beyond our judgements. Because our judgements clatter horribly, in this area. And they become invalidated so quickly. And careers can be lost, and egos can get destroyed over this one. And it has happened on this very stage, during these symposiums. And it’s wonderful, it’s wonderful. And I haven’t been talking about crop formations at all here, really. This is about the Human aspect of this whole phenomenon, which is so important too. In fact it might actually be the nub of the situation.

STANLEY: I think it is the nub of the situation. In fact, I think that’s been the tone of what we’ve both been saying all evening. the last thing, in a way, I ever want to talk about is crop circles! I want to talk about how to get away from them in way, how to react in such a way to – I know I come back again and again to the word ‘The Paranormal’ – but how to react to this in such a way that I become immensely more self aware. It’s not the crop circle that I see, it’s me. It’s the same as falling in love, isn’t it? You fall in love, but not with the girl, or with the man, what you fall in love with is this almost horrific reflection back to yourself of a depth in yourself that you hardly know how to face. And I think that all these paranormal events are there, produced by us as mirrors in which to see dimensions of ourselves that we haven’t yet reached, but on one level we know that we must now reach. Because if we don’t reach them this time, I don’t know what the next 26,920 years is going to be like. It certainly won’t be much fun.

PALDEN: We’re very privileged as well to be involved with this particular phenomenon, because it really fries your brains. It really jiggles your genes. And it’s free! It’s free, it’s amazing. But not only that, but because of people’s beliefs, because people believe that this whole thing is a whole load of imagination and a hoax, and that it has no significance, they’re leaving it all to us, which is just great as well. I mean isn’t that a privilege that there’s actually a very small number of people who have been really involved in crop formations, compared to the world’s population. I don’t know what number it has been, but I would guess it’s only perhaps a couple of tens of thousands of people who have really been involved. there’s a couple of people who’ve looked out of the car window and thought "Oh, how interesting", and driven on, but basically, it’s a very very small number of people, and yet it’s as if, as an unselected group, we’re getting shoved through quite a training. And the remarkable thing is, it’s just as well it’s free actually, because you couldn’t sell this training, ‘cus no one actually knows what it is! And I’d even add, I’m not even sure if the Circlemakers know either, actually, where this one’s going. I think there’s something which is unknown about the whole thing. I’m sure that when they started up this crop circle business tennish years ago – for serious, when the bigger stakes started coming along – I don’t think they foresaw that there would be so much doubt and disbelief, for example. I think they were genuinely starting to communicate with Humanity, and they weren’t expecting the majority of Humanity to look the other way. Nevertheless, this has happened. Nevertheless, they’ve made use of it. Nevertheless, they’re playing this game as it presents itself now. And the remarkable thing also is, I mean, look at the sheer intelligence that these guys bring into this business as well. The way in which successive crop circles come along, and the way in which the seasons evolve, and the themes evolve, and the psychodynamics evolve, and all sorts of things. There’s something very very special here, and we, I believe, are very privileged to be in this little, select, elite, to use a dirty word, who have chosen - of our free will – to be involved in this particular mystery. And congratulations for making that choice, because I can tell you one thing. You are being watched!

STANLEY: I think it’s time we let you go home to bed. What I really feel about tonight is this. That what I hope we’ve achieved between us is to make it possible for you perhaps to experience the next lot of lectures tomorrow and the following day with a kind of heightened consciousness, almost as if you were on a trip, you know. That you’re raised to a higher level, I hope. I think Palden and I have stimulated ourselves to a high, and I very much hope, and I wish you the utmost joy, and consciousness and awareness in every lecture that now follows. Because I’m sure there is a tremendous amount still to come.

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The Archive of Stanley Messenger A double act Sharing the stage with Palden Jenkins at the 1998 Glastonbury Symposium

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